Andy C: [00:00:00] Beautiful. Andy, how are you? I'm good math. Partially tired, but good. I mean, been a long weekend. . When did the weekend start for you? You know, I actually came in later than usual. I, um, I'm usually here like Monday or Tuesday. Okay. And I had some things I had to take care of. So I came in Monday evening, or I'm sorry, Wednesday evening.

Andy C: And the 12 starts on Thursday morning. And, uh, but luckily I, the staff is, the staff took care of everything. So I'm usually here Monday or Tuesday, but this year was the late, I was a late arrive . Very

Mario S: nice. So, uh, you and I know each other. Yeah. So we're kind of jumping into this. So, but let me first back up by asking the question Yeah.

Mario S: Is who are you, where are you from and what is your relation to the outdoors? And then we'll dive in from the rest of it there. Yeah.

Andy C: Oh man. Um, I'll try to make this story shorter than it [00:01:00] probably is, but, uh, my name is Andy Chasteen and I have been a lover of the outdoors forever. I grew up in the country, you know, running through streams and rivers and southern Missouri, uh, throwing rocks and fishing and, you know, you know, kid things that kids do.

Andy C: And so the outdoors has just been ingrained in me from a child. Um, and then I, I played, you know, all the team sports in high school and I played basketball in college and then got outta college and got straight into rock climbing. I became obsessed with rock climbing. When was this? Oh God. No. Don't ask me that.

Andy C: You're gonna age me, man. Don't . Well, I mean,

Mario S: okay, we don't have to. No,

Andy C: I, uh, I graduated from college in. 2002 maybe somewhere over there.

Mario S: No. Yeah.

Andy C: Okay. Yeah. No, no. . So, um, so it was [00:02:00] kind of around that time and then obviously we found a horseshoe hell in 2006. And so I really hadn't been climbing that long, long.

Andy C: That was kind of a new climber. I hadn't, I know I'm jumping ahead. I'm jumping ahead here. No, you're

Mario S: not. I just like anyone who knows the magnitude of horseshoe hell, that's such a funny, funny little, I mean, you went all in. Well, think about this.

Andy C: Listen to this piece of trivia here. Okay. When we put, I say we, I, this event's not mine.

Andy C: So I always say we, when we started to put on Horseshoe Hell 2006, I had never even been to a climbing competition in my entire life. Only not

Mario S: once. My Lord. .

Andy C: So there's, there's, there's negatives to that cuz you don't wanna know what it's like, but there's positives cuz you get your, you get a clean slate, you get to do it however you feel like it.

Andy C: I, I ha I mean there is magic to that I hadn't fallen into, you know, as they say, like, uh, [00:03:00] bad, uh, habits. Yeah, I, it was fresh and I just, I just, I say I, we put on an event that we thought would be cool. And that's it, dude. That's it.

Mario S: Yeah, no, that's kind of magic, honestly. And I think that's, it's funny. I think that's kind of honestly how climbing is really, if you take it.

Mario S: Yeah. If you look at it in a way, it's like you fell in love with the sport, right? And then you wanted to create the greatest experience for yourself and you and your friends. That's right. And whoever, right away. And I think that's one of the reasons why, like you, you find a route, you do it, and now you seek out the next best route or you seek out the next best thing or whatever it is.

Mario S: Like you're chasing after that. That's right. Yeah. And so that's beautiful. Yeah. I had no, I knew it started with just like a group of you guys just kind of hanging out. Yeah. That was it. It was kind of like, just like, Hey, let's just meet up and do this thing. And Yeah. Now it's turned into this monster. So how many years has, uh, horseshoe hell been a thing?

Mario S: But before we get into that. Yep. I'm not gonna assume everyone listening to this podcast knows what Horseshoe hell is. Yeah. That's So can you take a moment to explain [00:04:00] like, what is this unique phenomenon that exists nowhere else in the world? Yeah. Cause this event is, there's no, there's nowhere else in the world I think that has an event like

Andy C: that.

Andy C: Yeah. I like to call it a festival, but I think more. More than anything. Horseshoe Hell is a community of people really. Um, but into the details of it, horseshoe Hell is like a five day event in northwest Arkansas. Mm-hmm. at horses, Kenia Ranch. And there's, you know, there's parties, there's, we feed you a couple times, we show films.

Andy C: We, uh, uh, we have a bouldering party, and then, oh, by the way, there's a couple of competitions thrown in, right? Yeah. And so there's a 24 hour, you know, competition where you climb for 24 hour straight, see how many routes you can climb on lead clean. Um, and then there's also a 12 hour competition. That's the, that starts the day before.

Andy C: Mm-hmm. . And so we, you know, the 12 hour event was really, I, [00:05:00] I'm guessing here, maybe we came up with a 12 hour event, maybe like five or six years in mm-hmm. . So it, we didn't start with the 12 hour event, we just started with a 24 hour event. And so it really is this. Coming together of people in this canyon.

Andy C: Mm-hmm. for five days of, I, you know, I like to tell people you can do whatever you want as long as you're kind to anybody, everybody else like mm-hmm. . It's very much a community minded, uh, family. Uh, or you could also call it a cult. . . Yeah. That's awesome. Being an artist. I mean, I could go further. I mean, obviously there's much more to it, but it is a, you come here for a good time, it's a place you can, if you can't be any yourself, anywhere else in the world, you can be yourself here.

Andy C: And I think that that's like,

Andy C: I hate to say this, but the 24 hour and 12 hour events are just peripheral now. Now this is just a coming together of people. I would say that

Mario S: life-minded humans. No, I would [00:06:00] definitely agree that, um, when did the costumes come into play? Was that always been from the get go? Because I think that's, I think that's the part of it too that allows people to express, cuz there's been some wild things over the years.

Mario S: That's right. Mm-hmm. . And I do think that is like, I think you're right, horseshoe, hell is honestly has nothing to do with the climbing. It has everything to do. I mean, climbing is the climbing, is the driving. Sure. Like is the vehicle by which we're all here, but like you hear more friendships, more relationships.

Mario S: Yeah. That's people just of wide varieties just coming together, climbing like this is like, I guess this is like, I, I forget what the term it is in like networking, but there's a, there's like a node and I feel like you coming here consistently, this is the deepest that I've ever been. I've met more friends through Arkansas more than, that's right.

Mario S: Through Oklahoma. The entire climbing community. And a lot of Texans. Yeah. Here. More here than I've met, than any one place that I've ever traveled. Yeah. And so like this is a big like, As [00:07:00] you said, gathering

Andy C: of climbers. Yeah. Yeah. And for you to say that is a, makes me happy because that's what this is about.

Andy C: There is, I could, sorry, climbers, all you climbers out there that come here and try your hardest for the 12 and the 24 hour events. I don't care. I really just care about bringing people together for a good time and make a new friends. Like one of the things, you know, one of the things I like to ask people to do is bring a little gift from wherever you're from and give it to somebody you don't know.

Andy C: Oh, that's beautiful. And that allows you to meet somebody that you didn't know. Mm-hmm. . And one of the coolest things about here is, you know, we have people from all over the world come to this event and they meet new friends. And then for example, if you live, say you live in this area and you meet somebody from wherever Washington, it doesn't matter.

Andy C: Now you've got a new friend there and you can go stay at their house when you climb, when you visit there to climb or whatever. Yeah. And so there have been lifelong friendships made here, and these people come back every year.

Mario S: Oh yeah. Oh, this is like the [00:08:00] most, I mean, the wait list is how long on average, on this thing.

Andy C: We tend to have around a thousand people on the wait list every year. This

Mario S: is the most, like, it's funny, like if you're in the climbing community, this is one of the most talked about events, like Yeah. Around who knows it. And I still feel like, and when I say in your climbing community, the way I like to look at it is think of a bullseye.

Mario S: Like you're playing darts. Yeah. Level one, two, and three is like, I'm not gonna try and say like, you can't be in those levels, but like you, you've invested a, a large amount of your life Yeah. Into identifying as a rock climber. Right. Meaning, you know, you know the festivals you go to tri all your life like mm-hmm.

Mario S: like, I don't like to take a vacation unless it's rock climbing. Right. Right. Like, you, you kind, we all know what that is like. Mm-hmm. . And each and other sports have them. Mm-hmm. , this is this place where people come to meet and people come to this festival and it's unlike anything else. And I feel like when you come here, you develop those deeper center of the bullseye friendship.

Mario S: Yeah, [00:09:00] that's right. Really fast. Cuz you're spending five days, you're spending a tremendous amount of time, you're suffering. Mm-hmm. put together and suffering makes, I don't care who you go, uh, who you are. If you go through hard times with some, someone that you've willingly both put yourself through.

Mario S: Right. Yeah. You build relationships and I think this is that like the magic here, but it is such a diverse group.

Andy C: Yeah. It's great. And no one, no one here cares how hard you climb. No. That's not all's the, that's the least of anybody's concern. It's the least of your concern. There are people here who are trying to climb one route per hour and that's their goal.

Andy C: Yeah. And there are people here trying, coming, trying to crush the records and they're all climbing together and they're all cheering on each other out at the Craig during the event. And that is, that was the vision for this from the start. Mm-hmm. , I. Calling all pros, we don't care if you come. We could care less.

Andy C: I'm sorry. No, I know. That's, no, I ain't, no, I hope that doesn't come off wrong. Now say it like it is Playboy. Say it like it is for the people. Yeah. I don't care. I, I don't, I hope this doesn't come across the wrong ways, but this [00:10:00] event is for regular human beings to come and challenge theirself. And if pros wanna come, totally cool.

Andy C: But that's not what this is about. No,

Mario S: no, I definitely agree with you. I definitely, I definitely, definitely agree with you. So, outside of this monstrosity, like I know you have a very established career as a cyclist, as a road biker, you're also a content creator. You're kind of like, I think like, I don't know.

Mario S: I really feel like you are, you are the, like the jack of all. Would you say you're a master of none? Uh, yes, but a jack of all trade, but a master. Well, how does it go? Jack of all trades is a master of none. Is not a master of one. , but he knows how to do a bunch of stuff.

Andy C: Like, let's say it much, much more country fride I say it. I am great at nothing. I'm okay at everything. Oh, good lord. .

Mario S: Good lord. Okay. Take me to church. I love that . Yeah. So I guess like, so outside of climbing, so you found [00:11:00] climbing that was like your heart. You established this event. Yeah. This event is like, there's enough, there's enough Google this enough, there's enough on the internet that talks about it.

Mario S: Yeah, for sure. So, um, and now you live in Bentonville. Can we jump to like, when did you discover cycling and what about it made you click? Yeah, so much because I identify you more as a cyclist than I do a climber. I know, I knew you climbed. Yeah. But I like your identity in my mind as a brand. Yeah. Is you are a cyclist.

Andy C: Yeah. I, I, I would say that that's probably correct. Um, uh, I, I spent, you know, quite a few years being an ab obsessive rock climbing. , and that was during those years that we, you know, talked about before mm-hmm. . And so, and that's when we founded Horseshoe Hell. And then I, I, uh, I kind of like, I got into this really short one year stint of being like, super into, I have an obsessive personality, so mm-hmm.

Andy C: whatever I'm into, like, I'm in it, like tunnel vision. Mm-hmm. . Right. [00:12:00] And I got into ultra-marathons, oddly enough for like a year, and I thought that that'd be cool. I hated running, but I thought it'd be cool to run for like, you know, 20 hours straight or whatever. Yeah. Because it's hard.

Mario S: Yeah. Hard, nice nails.

Andy C: And so I started like, training for these ultra-marathons that I wanna do, and I'm a bigger guy, so I'm like about two pound guys. And you can't run every day as a 200 pounder without injuring yourself. I got on the bike, the supplement, like time, training time, and I, I wasn't a cyclist, you know, I rode bike, but I was never really into it.

Andy C: And once I, I got on the bike to start training for alter marathons. . And then my obsession, obsession switched. It just completely pivoted to cycling. And that's when I got into road racing and all these different things. You know, I got super obsessed with it, and I still ride, uh, way more than I climb. I, I, I just, you know, it's my obsession.

Andy C: I, I cannot [00:13:00] focus on multiple things at once, and so I have to focus on one thing. And so right now I'm just a, I'm, I'm riding a lot. Nice. And that's what it is. You know, I still have that intense passion for the, for the climbing community. Mm-hmm. , because I would argue being immersed in both communities, um, the climbing community is way, way cooler than the.

Mario S: Really, I feel like the, like someone's gonna call the, call you out or these are fighting words you just said. Yeah, I don't, I don't care. I, I, no, I love it. , listen, like you give no fucks. You give no fucks and get no fucks. So I can see that

Andy C: you are here. I am ob an obsessive cyclist, but I can be objective and, and, and, and stick.

Andy C: Take a step back and say the climbing community is just a much more welcoming, understanding, like loving. Is that the nature of the

Mario S: sport? Because like is that just cuz what climbing is? Because when you say that, I think about one of my first times here. Yeah. Doing the 24 and I remember there was, I don't know who they [00:14:00] are, I know they're living legends, but there's a couple, an older couple and they did the 36.

Mario S: Yeah. And I cannot remember what

Andy C: their name is. Was it Dick Dower and Natalie? Maybe.

Mario S: No. Maybe. Maybe they were. I

Andy C: mean they are legends. They,

Mario S: I think it is. They've done every Is Dick here? Yeah, they're here now. I think it is them, but I just remember. . They were the same age as another, much older couple than me at that time.

Mario S: Sure. Yeah. And this older couple I first saw was just like, they were like, oh, we're just trying to get around an hour. Yeah. Kind of hang out. And then they came up almost, you know, I didn't think they were that far off. And these two were just nailing. Oh

Andy C: my gosh. Yeah, they're good. Just

Mario S: nailing throughout, like breaking records.

Mario S: Yeah. And it was just one of these cool things, and I think the reason why I bring that up is the climbing community. I think climbing in itself, the nature of it is, is like, it just, the only reason why climbing would ever be shitty is because of shitty people. Because the nature of climbing is, it doesn't matter [00:15:00] like who you are, where you're coming from, the route is the same, right?

Mario S: The effort is the same. And anyone who turns and sees you climbing on a wall has immediate respect for you because like just to rope in and tie in and just pull up. It's a lot. Yeah. And so I definitely see that, like, that's why I think the climbing community is so welcome. So what's the difference between this and the cycling community?

Mario S: I'm like, I'm not trying to talk shit on cycling here, but Sure. Yeah. For sure. This is a world I know nothing of. Yeah. And I've talked to you about some ideas that I have, and there's a few ideas I'd like to like spitball off your head here on this episode. Yeah. But, um, I, cycling is something I'm interested in, but I just do like urban riding.

Mario S: Sure. Yeah. So what's the difference in the community? I'm kind of grand.

Andy C: I think I, I, this is my guess, just being immersed in both of them. My guess is like, climbing is inherently competing against yourself, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. , uh, for the most part, when you're at a crag or even in, when you're in a gym, you're climbing with your friends and you want your [00:16:00] friend to, you're not competing against that friend.

Andy C: Generally speaking, that's not always the case. No, no, I get it. Yeah. But for generally speaking, when you're cra with a friend or a buddy of yours, , you're cheer, you want them to send that route. Oh, hell yeah. You want them to get it.

Mario S: Oh, it's, it's invested. That's

Andy C: right. And then cycling is more of a competitive, like you're competing against other people.

Andy C: You are trying to beat them, right? Mm-hmm. . So I'm assuming that that attracts different personality types, right? Yeah. It is inherent in the two, in those two different sports that they attract different personalities. Again, that's not always the case, but I'm saying generally speaking. And so that would be, so you get these really type A personalities that are highly competitive and cycling and they just wanna beat each other up, right?

Andy C: Mm-hmm. in climbing, you're cheering for those people that you're climbing with. Yeah. So I think that's

Mario S: the difference. No, I would say that's the, that's the most obvious difference. Is there any crossovers [00:17:00] where you see, like, climbing, climbing culture and, uh, climbing community and cycling community meet in?

Mario S: Like, are there any points where they intersect in the much the same.

Andy C: Love, appreciation for the outdoors, doing things hard, doing things that are very difficult. Um, those would be kind of crossovers that I see personally. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I, I, I, I think that you find, generally speaking, cycle communities great.

Andy C: It's better than a lot of other type of communities out there, but I I, I'm comparing just the, when you're comparing these two together mm-hmm. , you just find a more community minded people mm-hmm. In climbing than you do in cycling again, once again.

Mario S: Yeah. And the, the, the sports are different inherently.

Mario S: Like they, they, we are acknowledging that they're draw in two very different types of people. But

Andy C: oftentimes you do find crossover. Like I know a lot of rock climbers that ride and vice versa. I

Mario S: find it like, I find riding more therapeutic. Yeah. I mean, that's just for me, and like, I've always done it. Like my [00:18:00] favorite thing is just to.

Mario S: Right around downtown Dallas. Yeah. Early in the morning. Yep. Like, you know, just, I'm kind of just turning gone wherever. That's right. People are like, well, do you have a plan? I'm like, Nope. I'm just gonna turn on this street. Yeah. I'm just gonna go here. And just, I like it. It's more of an exploration. I think that's why, like, that's the thing that has always drawn me to, like riding a bike.

Mario S: It's just like, it's the vehicle that I'm driving. Yeah. And I can just go wherever I want

Andy C: to go. It reminds me of being a kid. It does. When I used to get on my bike, I know it's a, we might be a little bit different generation. Some people like, I'm old enough to wear, like when I was a kid, I, I just got set free to go ride my bike wherever.

Andy C: No, that was it.

Mario S: My rule, my dad was like, Street lights come on. Yeah. , you need to be home. If not, I want a phone call from a payphone. Yeah. Every hour, right on the hour. Yeah. So I would have to take enough change if I knew I was gonna be out. Yeah. I had to take enough change in my pocket. Yeah. So I could make a call on the hour every hour.

Mario S: Cause my dad would beat my ass if I, if he had to stay up, like worrying about [00:19:00] me. Like if I woke him up, , because I could quite call like, maybe like the fifth call. Yeah. He'd be like, all right, he's fine. Okay. like, like, don't call anymore. Just come home whenever you're ready. Yeah. But if he had to stay up worrying about me, yeah.

Mario S: You

Andy C: were in trouble. Oh

Mario S: Lord. I just remember walking into the house and I, my father would just look at me. I'd be like, okay, okay. Bye. I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm about to, I'm gonna get it . But yeah. I don't think those, those days don't exist anymore. But I do know what you mean. Like just getting set free. I'll never forget we moved into, I would moved into a different neighborhood and I would just turn on all these little streets and these little alleyways and just be exploring.

Mario S: Yeah. And I think that's

Andy C: like, and you're doing it now and as, as an adult and it makes you feel like a kid. It does, yeah. It's beautiful.

Mario S: That's what I like about it a lot. Is there anything else you do that, like outside of cycling that makes you feel

Andy C: like a kid? I mean, I feel like a kid every day because I, you know, in my work I do, I only choose to do things that I love.

Andy C: I don't care how much money they make, I could care less. I would pr I would [00:20:00] prefer to be happy in my life. And so everything I do for work I would do for free, which makes me feel like a kid. That makes sense. And those are rules I made for myself a long time ago, not caring about how much money I made, just doing the thing I love.

Andy C: That's fair. No matter what. No, that's

Mario S: fair. I I can, I

Andy C: can support that. And, and that's made for some difficult times because, you know, very thin, you know, thin money times, you know, but it's made for a happy life. , how have

Mario S: you set yourself up to support that life? Because I mean, not everybody can do that.

Mario S: Sure. I mean, not everybody can just like, you know, cause I know you live in your van part-time. Sure, yeah. When you're working. Yeah. Do you, I mean, I don't know, like, but how, like, what are the things, I guess early on as you started to do this were like, I guess like, there were, there like key three, like a few big things where you're like, okay, if I'm, if I want to keep this lifestyle Yeah.

Mario S: And I want to be able to work for happiness, not have to chase dollars. Like what was something that you said you would say that you had to

Andy C: do early? That's a real, I mean, that's pretty dang good question. One thing I, one thing I did [00:21:00] is, um, was be okay with not having very much money. Yeah. That's hard. Uh, being, you know, living paycheck to paycheck and, you know, someti having a few months there, you know, where you don't know if you're gonna be able to make those bills or mm-hmm.

Andy C: whatever. I've been there. I was okay with that. Uh, and I, I also have a personality where I don't. Thrive on stability. My, I thrive on, uh, thrive on fun and happiness. , it's, you know, I, I understand that doesn't work for some people. I get that. But I am j I'm just, I don't think that I have three things that I, I agree.

Andy C: Whatever. I just stayed the course. Okay. You know, um, I just stayed the course for years on end, you know, being pretty poor and not caring, really, truly not caring how much money I made, being happy, doing the things that I want to do, not the things that I have to do. Um, and again, I know that doesn't work [00:22:00] for everybody, but I wasn't willing to, uh, to compromise that.

Andy C: Mm-hmm. no matter what. And it took some time, you know, I'm not a young chicken anymore, but I, I have built up to a point where, Now I don't worry about money as much, but I've stayed that course. Yeah.

Mario S: And I think, well, I think the big thing with you, especially in the south, is you've also built a brand kind of around you.

Mario S: I think you really do that. I mean, I would say this, from what I know is like if I hear of a project that you're involved in, I know one of the, I know it's gonna be, it's gonna be two things. It's gonna be good and it's gonna be impactful because like, I don't see you connecting yourself to anything unless it has those values.

Mario S: Yeah. You know, and it's like, and you're also, I guess, you know, it's like, I don't wanna say, use the word cheap you make, it's gonna be accessible. Yeah. I think that's really what it is. So it's gonna be accessible, it's gonna be good, and it's gonna be deep. Well,

Andy C: that's, I, that's extremely, I, yeah. That's extremely important to [00:23:00] me.

Andy C: If that goes back to, I won't touch anything if I'm not passionate about it because it will suck. Yeah. If I'm not passionate about what I'm doing. Mm-hmm. , my work will be terrible. It won't work. . And so I've grown in, I've, I've had to gain that confidence to be able to say, no, I'm not passionate about that.

Andy C: That might make some money, but I won't like it. So what's that? How's that gonna fulfill my life?

Mario S: Right. Was there a ever a moment or a job you can remember that you just turned down because it was like, that was a shit, not of money, but like, you, like you were really having that feeling.

Andy C: There's been projects, I don't think any jobs, but like, however you call 'em, maybe even events that I've been approached about that um, you know, I had, there's been quite a few opportunities to expand Horseshoe Health to two, three dif, four, five more different markets.

Andy C: Oh wow. And I just don't know if that's the right thing for this, you know, quote unquote brand. [00:24:00] I think that Horseshoe hell is best served for the community being a once a year. Family reunion in Arkansas. Oh, I love that. And again, yeah, those, those would make me more money. But,

Mario S: but it, it, no, it definitely it.

Mario S: But is it worth it? I don't think it is, man. It changes the sauce. It changes the sauce, yeah. Because I mean, it,

Andy C: it's then what if there was six horseshoe hell spread out throughout the year with this one wouldn't be as special, would it? No, no, no. It would cheapen it. No, I'm, I'm, I'm asking a real question.

Mario S: I don't know. No, no. I'm answering your question. Yeah. I think it would cheapen it, right? Yeah. I think you would definitely cheapen it because like, it is such a big deal. Mm-hmm. here and like, and the, I guess if you volunteer, do you get a, a, do you get an opportunity to climb in it next year?

Andy C: Yeah, you do.

Andy C: But you know, it's even hard to get a volunteer spot. But my point

Mario S: is, is like you're making avenues for it. It's not like you cannot, like, once again, like that's the beauty of this event. It's like, it doesn't, it's not too [00:25:00] expensive. . It's extremely accessible. Yeah. The biggest investment you have to make in, in order to do horseshoe hell is your itself.

Mario S: That's right. You need like, like if you're someone who's a Gumby first day in the rock climbing gym That's right. And you wanna do horseshoe hell, all you really need is a willing partner. Yeah. A lot of patience. Invest in your own camping, climbing everything you need to make yourself survive outdoors.

Mario S: And you can come here. Yeah. With barely any experience. Yeah, you will. You will out. You will have more experience than most people by the time you leave. That's right. That's right. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And so I think that, no, like I can definitely see that, but the answer to your question, I think it would cheapen the event.

Mario S: I think it would like five or six of them, but definitely like that many, it would take away from it.

Andy C: There's a real cool, a real cool story I tell people sometimes that really kind of, uh, guided the trajectory of this event. 2008, it was our third year son Trotter came and he competed, and of course [00:26:00] he won.

Andy C: Um, and after the event I was like, Hey man, I really want to grow this thing and like make it like the biggest, best event in the world. Like what do you think about like, bringing all these pros in and doing like pro payouts and getting all these sponsors and blah, blah. And he was like, dude, if you do that, you'll ruin this thing.

Andy C: And I was like, what? ? I was so taken aback. He was like, this thing is special because it feels real. And he was like, he was like, in my opinion, you should never do that. And it made me step back and think, okay, what is this event really about? Do I really want it to be in all the magazines in, uh, you know, the focus on the pros, payouts and whatever?

Andy C: No. Do I really want to just bring people together for a good time for five days? Man,

Mario S: this is the best hang since like, I mean, this is the best hang ever. Oh no. Yeah.

Andy C: Wow. That's powerful. I so his. His advice changed the [00:27:00] trajectory of this event because I had been thinking of going in a, in this other direction.

Andy C: Other direction. Yeah. So I really do credit Sonny for saying, dude, that's the wrong path.

Mario S: Yeah. . Yeah. That was some that was so quick. Wisdom

Andy C: dropped real quick. I know. And once that decision was made, I have been, I'm a very stubborn person. I haven't changed, I, I, the ethos of the, this event is, this event costs $110 to compete in mm-hmm.

Andy C: for a five day festival. Mm-hmm. , we feed you however many times we show you a film. We got after parties. We got free beer, we got free food, we got, there's, you know, there's $200 worth of swag you get in your bag. And we haven't raised that price in probably 10 years because, and we also don't take cash from sponsorships.

Andy C: If a, if a company comes in, I will, I will. Not name this company, but there was a company probably 10 or 15 years ago that came in and wanted to give a ton of [00:28:00] cash for, uh, a big company that wanted to come in, give a ton of cash for title sponsorship. And I said, no. Cause the second, this is my accountability.

Andy C: Yeah. The second money becomes a part of this event for me, is the second I start making decisions based upon money.

Mario S: Oh yeah, yeah,

Andy C: yeah. And then those decisions aren't based upon the good of the event or the good of the people coming or whatever. No. It's based upon money. And so this, this event is not about making money, it's just about, I make right now, I make plenty of money in my day job.

Andy C: I don't need the money for from this. And so that is the ethos of the event. We have never taken cash from a sponsor ever. Wow. In 17 years. Um, and it costs a hundred. And if you just wanna come and hang for the weekend and not compete, it's 45 bucks. That's it. Yeah. See it's five days.

Mario S: Yeah. I mean for once, once again, like this is, like, this [00:29:00] event is kind of unreal.

Mario S: Um, yeah, I could see that. Like, cuz it you, I agree with you because you would start making decisions based on revenue, not based on what the community needs. Cause I imagine now when you're making these decisions, you're like, well, as long as people think it's rad, that's right. Then let's do it. But if they, if it's not gonna be fun, then let's have nothing to do with it.

Mario S: And I think that's what makes this

Andy C: special. And letting and letting the people own the event. Like, I don't want to own this event. I want the people to own it. Like we, here's a good example. Covid year. Mm-hmm 2020. We put, we put it to a vote whether we should even have I let the people vote on it and they voted.

Andy C: Oh, I remember that. They voted not to have it and so we didn't have it. I remember that. Yeah. And we didn't keep people's money. We deferred everyone's entry to 2021. , everyone's, if you wanted to defer your entry, we let you defer it. And it, we didn't, we didn't keep anybody's cash. Nobody's cash. We let everybody either, you either got a refund or you got to defer it in 2021.

Andy C: And [00:30:00] so, uh, two, yesterday morning at the climbers meeting at nine o'clock in the morning, we were trying to figure out where we wanted to have the after party. And I was like, I can't make the decision. Let's just vote on it. . So we had the crowd vote on where the after party's happening tonight. Oh, that's awesome.

Andy C: Civilian field down at, you know, down in front of the trading, trading post, and everybody voted on the trading post. So that's where we're having it. Mm-hmm. You know, okay. It's gonna be wild. I want everyone to own a little piece of this. I don't want to own this advan. I want everybody else to own it. I don't want, it's not mine, this

Mario S: ain't mine.

Mario S: That's the, but I think that's admirable of you. But I also think that's like you're sta you're sticking true to your guns and you're also sticking true to the nature of climbing. Like, we don't own any of this rock. I mean, someone might own the property, own the land, but the reality is, is like, We don't own this rock.

Mario S: We never will. Right. This thing will be here long past all of us, all of us will be mush and Right. Mushroom food. That's right. Yeah. And this thing will still be here. Yeah. And so like, we are [00:31:00] guests and then I love that attitude. Yeah. Um, sure. I'd like to, you mentioned it a little earlier and I want to switch gears and talk about, um, your cycling.

Mario S: Uh, you have three spokes

Andy C: or three Oh, the, uh, my cycling event? Yeah. Yeah. That's called the rule of three. The rule of three? Yeah. Okay,

Mario S: cool. Yeah. Cool. . Yeah. I know nothing about this, so tell me That's

Andy C: okay. Yeah, for sure. So what is it's, it's a, uh, so it's a, it would be considered a gravel cycling race, basically.

Andy C: Um, and it's set in Bentonville and, but what it, it's, it has a unique format to it because you spend, it's a hundred miles, the rise a hundred miles long, and you spend 50 miles on gravel roads. You spend 30 miles on paved roads, and you spend 20 miles on single track mount bike trail. . And so you gotta pick your one bike.

Andy C: You could you pick your one bike to use for that day. Ooh. You know, you pick a mountain bike, it's gonna be slow on the gravel and road. You pick a gravel bike, it's gonna be a little bit less, you know, great. [00:32:00] On, on the single track, right? Yeah. And so it's, it's, it's very, very equipment driven. It's a very, very difficult course.

Andy C: It's very hard. It's a challenge. It's hard to finish. Oh, wow. Um, and we, we run it in the exact same ethos that's 24 hours of . We don't take cons sponsor cash. The event costs 65 bucks to do. Oh. And your value, the, the return of value that you get, you cross that finish line and you, we put a bag over your shoulder and it has a burrito inside.

Andy C: It has a beer, , it has a Coke, and it has like a muffin in there. And so you're sitting at the finish line completely cratered outta your mind. You're like dying. But you've, and you've got sustenance right there, so you don't need to go, you don't need to pull your wallet out anywhere to go buy food somewhere.

Andy C: You don't have to go buy beers. It's all right in this bag on your shoulder. So you can get that sustenance, that will, that'll allow you to stay there and have a good time. We got photo booth photos. There's all kinds of things going on. Oh, that's awesome. So it [00:33:00] has a little bit of a festival at atmosphere as well to it.

Andy C: Um, and it has, it has, we have the capability of going bigger. Like we have, uh, you know, this year we had 1500 people, um, compete in it. How, what's

Mario S: the Mac? Or, we

Andy C: capped it at 1500. Oh, okay. Yeah. So we sold out 1500 spots in like a less,

Mario S: little less than a day question is the weight, how big is the waiting list to get on this

Andy C: thing?

Andy C: Uh, so we don't, do we, well, I guess we do have a waiting list because we fill up that registration fills up and if you don't get in, we do open up a, a waiting list and it's pretty gigantic as well. So, and a lot of the draw on that one is like, we're new. This is, this was just our second year. We just did, this was just our second this year was, this is awesome.

Andy C: And uh, a lot of that draw is that it's in Bentonville, which has world class mountain biking trails. Mm-hmm. and the gravel roads outside of Bentonville are primo. They're just gorgeous and, you know, physical and the terrain's difficult. And so it, you know, Bentonville is a great place to visit and so people, you [00:34:00] know, it makes sense to put an event on there because it's kind of like this cycling mecca now.

Andy C: Yeah. And so that's a good draw, but you also have to put on a good event, get people coming back. Right. Yeah. So, um, so that's kind of the story behind Rule of three and it's been very fun. But again, same exact ethos as worship hell. Um, as far as. No decisions made based upon money, only decisions made based upon the experience of the people coming.

Andy C: Was the conception

Mario S: of it, much like the same as horseshoe? How did you get, got a bunch of p people together and like, I have this crazy ass idea. Let's try

Andy C: it. Yeah. As a matter of fact, me and one, uh, me and a buddy of mine were riding single track one day in Bentonville on our gravel bikes because there's a lot, there's a, there's actually quite a bit of single track in Bentonville that is smooth and flowy and fun enough mm-hmm.

Andy C: to where it's not crazy technical to where you have to have a, you know, a mountain bike, a real mountain bike on. And so we're just ripping around on these drop bar gravel bikes and we were like, dude, this [00:35:00] is fun. And then you pop out on the road and then you go onto gravel roads and so you're like popping in and out all this different terrain all day.

Andy C: And we're like, it'd be pretty cool to put on an event here. Or like, yeah, you know, where you ride all these different terrains. And we sat, we sat on it for a couple years. We didn't, we didn't run with it immediately. But we felt like 2021 was kind of like the right time to do it right outta the pandemic.

Andy C: Mm-hmm. . Um, we thought it would be really, really small starting off and we're like, well, we could get away with, you know, 200 people our first year because, you know, people won't be traveling from other states to come in and spreading covid. Like, things like that. You know, we were thinking this through and then we sold out like 700 spots that first year and I was like, oh crap.

Andy C: Likely was outside . Yeah, . And we did not create a super spreader, which is good. Oh yeah. Uh, yeah. But that's kind of, that was, that's the inception of Rule of three and then I, I hope that it grows similarly to, to [00:36:00] horseshoe Hell. And honestly, if it doesn't, I'll just end it. Yeah. Because that's what all I care about.

Andy C: I really am extremely passionate about bringing people together as a community for friendships and fun and laughter and being whoever you want to be. and uh, that's that like, that recharges me. Really. I leave this place recharged. I don't leave this place exhausted. Well, partially because I don't have to do as much work anymore.

Andy C: But , I do. I leave this place recharged in like, this is like my annual recharging of faith in human. I

Mario S: mean, you look very chius right now, like this fucking full linen onesie walking around, just fucking godfather mode. Yeah, it is awesome. It's funny you say that because I would always do this event and then this event kicks off like the tail end of climbing in Red Rocks before the rain season season comes in.

Mario S: So historically I would always do the 24 and then [00:37:00] I would be in the mindset to go to Vegas to try to do, this was the year that I was trying to finish. I had uh, I think nine routes that I wanted to do in Vegas and I wanted to do 'em in a week. Oh yeah. And Will and I did. I think we did everything but one, we did eight routes Wow.

Mario S: In a week. And so we did like Frog Land, father Time, um, we did Rine, rock Warrior, prince of Darkness, uh, Texas Holdem. Yeah. Um, I believe, I cannot remember the other two. Uh, there's, I'll remember 'em later. That's a big week. But yeah, it was a big week. But the thing is, is like it would only work, like for me, I would just be in such the mindset cuz we tried doing it other times of the year.

Mario S: Yeah. And I'd be like, okay, cool. But I didn't like have the mental fortitude, but I felt like doing this right after that and then going out like, yeah, I just did this for 24 hours. Doesn't, doesn't freaking matter. Like, I'm like, my brain [00:38:00] is sharp and I'm ready to go at it. And I like, I've always used this as a springboard.

Mario S: So I, it's cool to hear that you say this recharges, recharges you cuz this. Like stoke the fire of my joy. Nice. Yeah. For climbing. Yeah. And I would wanna climb more. I mean, granted, I was wrecked every as, everyone is wrecked for like a week or two after this. Yeah, yeah. But this, I definitely stokes the fire to just like go climbing and help people climb.

Mario S: Yeah.

Andy C: So, yeah. This, I like that. That makes me happy. Cuz that's, we, that's all we do at four. Yeah. You know?

Mario S: Yeah. So I, so outside of like running these events and that's it. If, um, I know you work as a market, are you a full-time marketing agency? Are you like, you're a one man show? Like that's the thing that's like, I think is so unique about you.

Mario S: It's like, I feel like you could message me like Dad, I'm like, I have this opportunity. I'm in Saigon. You are that person, or I was like, of course you are. Of course you're in some random part

of

Andy C: the world. I'm, I'm, man, I'm a very much a people person. I was [00:39:00] born with an outgoing personality. It didn't cultivate, it's just who I am.

Andy C: Mm-hmm. . And I love being around people. I love talking to people of all different types. Mm-hmm. , I don't care who you are. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I think that, so I don't know, maybe that lends itself well to what I do, but I, Charlie I don't know what I do. I do all kinds of stuff. I'm, I, uh, I'm a photographer. I'm a, you know, marketing guy.

Andy C: I help brands with their public image, essentially, like mm-hmm. , you know, you know, brand abc. Um, how, how do we, how do we want our, uh, our audience to perceive us? Mm-hmm. , are we a high-end brand or are we a affordable brand? You know, if I help people's strategy in those realms, um, and then I help people with outdoor recreation projects.

Andy C: I do a crazy amount of different things. . And I like that because I get bored with things. Ah, so I need to be doing different things at all times. And I work for myself. I have my own brand. I have, or I have my own [00:40:00] company that I'm self-employed. And I do, I I have two, uh, two employees that help me. Mm-hmm.

Andy C: with some of the work when I am a little two, um, overbooked. I, I guess. Yep. Yep. And, uh, it's, it's a, I'm very, very busy, but I love every, none of it feels like work. Oh, I none. I, I get that. None of it. And I, I encourage people all the time to live that life, no matter. No one, you know, no one's on their deathbed at 80, 90 years old.

Andy C: Mm-hmm. wishing, oh, I wish I would've worked more. I wish I would've made more money. No, I wish I would've had more experiences. I wish I would've made more things that make me hap do more. I wish I would've done more things that make me happy. I wish I would've done more things in life that would've fulfilled me instead of.

Andy C: Put more money in my bank account, you know? Yeah. And so I am, I'm so stubborn. I'm only willing to do things that I'm passionate about. I'm just not willing to, I don't care how [00:41:00] much money it makes, doesn't matter. I know way too many very wealthy people who are extremely unhappy. And I don't wanna be that.

Andy C: I'm sorry. I just don't Yeah, no,

Mario S: no. I, I, yeah man. No, I'm with you on that one. It's one of the things that's like, people have asked me like, why haven't you ever stopped coaching or quitting? And I like quit coaching and like just move on to something else. Or like chase all these inba, what is it?

Mario S: Ambitions and dreams. Yeah. And if you spend 10 minutes with me coaching, you realize kids are the coolest things since Fred. Right? Yeah. And just watching them go from seven year olds, six year olds, to the point now where like, I have kids that I coach that have reached out to me that are like, I'm getting ready to start a family.

Mario S: Are you still coaching? Yeah. And these, like, it's just watching someone go through this growth process. I can't imagine doing anything else because it brings me. , whether you're a kid, whether you're an adult, but like just watching you go through your growth process and becoming better at what you do and the joy that it brings you Yeah.

Mario S: Is worth, its weighting gold [00:42:00] and it's like, uh, like the happiest place I am is laying someone or spotting someone. And it's just like watching them and helping them get there Yeah. Is handedly the most beautiful thing

Andy C: in the world. And you're doing for a job what you would do for free? Free

Mario S: if you could.

Mario S: Yeah. Oh, I would, I would teach people to rock climb for free all day. Yeah. And I've definitely done it for free before. I just had to, at one point I realized I needed to start eating more food. Yeah.

Andy C: I've shot lots of photos for free to get to the point where I'm down. Yeah. I think

Mario S: that's a part of it too.

Mario S: I think I've definitely heard that for like, I do, like, you know, I do a little bit of film and production. Yeah, you do. Yeah. Yeah. And um, I've done more films for free. Yeah. And shot more things for free. Than I, than I have ever done, than I've gotten paid for. Right, right, right. However, that allows me the opportunity and has got me in the doors that I've been in.

Mario S: And I think that

Andy C: you build your, you build your portfolio, you know, you build your work, people get to see it. Um, and then the next thing you know, it's taken off, you know? Um, and sometimes it takes a while. It took me a long [00:43:00] time and I, I actually came to a point where I realized that I couldn't just take photos for a living.

Andy C: Really. I had to make certain things in why I just wasn't making enough money. Okay. You know, and so I, I, I wasn't making enough just shooting photos. And so I was like, what if I, what if I shot photos and maybe built websites for people with those photos, Uhuh. So I went, I did, I went that route. And then I would do, I would shoot photos for brands and then run their social media with those photos, uhhuh.

Andy C: And so I was like, okay, how can I continue to do the things that I love? But also make a little bit more money mm-hmm. and build my whatever business. And so it took, took me forever, dude. . Yeah. I mean, I think it took

Mario S: forever. Yeah. I don't think anything comes fast. And I think that's the reality of like the curse of the internet and the curse of social media.

Mario S: Instant gratification people. Yeah. Peop Instagram instant gratification. Right? That's, yeah. Like people think it's supposed to be happening and it's like, you know, it's [00:44:00] like, I think about, I don't know, I, this is just me and I think about this, I think about, like, I talked to my dad about like when he was my age and what was he doing?

Mario S: And it's like, granted the world was a different place back in then. Like, he was like, you know, I was trying to have a family, I was trying to do all this and like that and like, and then, but then we start getting into it and you start getting about the opportunities, uh, the things that are a available to you in comparison to now.

Mario S: Sure, sure. And I think the reality is, is people have still been chasing their dreams. Just maybe the puzzles have moved around. People are having families later. Oh yeah. A bit sooner or whatever. . But as you said, like everyone is still, most people are still trying to chase after something that brings them a bunch, a ton of joy.

Mario S: Right. Right. And I think this, the world now, we just see it all the time right. In our faces and they're like, well, uh, I should be here now. And it's like, no, you should not. Right. Like, if you have That's right. This, and I guess this is, this is very true for climbing. And I'll say this for me, the moment I'm climbing a route, especially a big route, um, if I'm like, God, I should already be there.

Mario S: That's the [00:45:00] moment when I'm like, okay, like I'm operating, I'm climbing under the ba under the wrong pretense. Right. I'm climbing under ego and insecurity, and this is where I like start. Yep. This is where you start tangling with the devil. That's true. And so I think that's like a beautiful thing to, like you saying like, it's taken a while.

Mario S: And I think, I'm assume I'm a, I'm definitely, I imagine you've had your own battles of, like you said it earlier, like not making a ton of money or not having lots of it, like not having opportunities when you want to. And it's frustrating. Yeah. . And is that something you've just kind of like, I mean, your personality seems like you're kind of someone who just like takes a licking and just keeps on chicken.

Andy C: I'm just stubborn. Yeah. And I wasn't willing to. I did so. So I did spend like two years in this corporate job that made good money kind of right outta college. That made really good money and I hated it. Really? I hated it. And that taught me a lesson that I've lived by since then that stay the course.

Andy C: Even if you're poor, who cares [00:46:00] if you're happy, man? I understand. You have to pay bills. I get that. Yeah. There are nuances. Yeah. Like no one's asking you to go hungry. That's right. That's right. But you know, I, oh, I'm always asking my buddies, all my friends, are you doing for a living? What you do for free?

Andy C: If you could, that is my North Star. That's my North Star. Mm-hmm. . That's beautiful. And it's not easy, man. It's not easy. Well,

Mario S: no dude, it's probably, honestly, emotionally, I would say, I mean, I'm trying to do beat in the same boat and we, you and I have talked about me diversifying my podcast and That's right.

Mario S: Yeah. Things like that. And this is something I'm learning how to do, but like there's a tremendous, I would say, arguably say there's a lot more personal failure that you have to deal with. Yeah. Kind of growing in this route, comparison to, as you said, taking a corporate job, taking things like that, not knocking on anybody who's in that structure.

Mario S: Sure. That structure's hard enough as it is. Sure. I think it's a bit, I think it's a different type of person. It works for some people. Yeah. Like I think there are people who really thrive in that [00:47:00] environment. That's right. Agree. Yeah. But like at the same time, I think like in this world and let's just say more the creative world.

Mario S: Yeah. Like I personally would say I've dealt with a lot of ideas that have flopped and failed. Me too. And I've just kind of like, you know, and sometimes you're kicking yourself in the teeth. I've definitely asked myself, I was like, maybe I should just like switch gears. Yeah. And like walk away from either production, podcasting, right.

Mario S: Or. Things like that. Coaching has never been that thing cuz it just brings me so much joy. Yep, yep. And this brings me a tremendous amount, but it is one of those growing pains. Yeah. And I think,

Andy C: yeah, I mean, well I admire that you're doing everything your own way because that's, that's, it's not easy to do, but it does bring more joy and fulfillment in my mind, immensely.

Andy C: It's maybe not always easier. Um, and it can come with its fair share of, you know, I scrape by for years, just barely. Um, but if I, I believe the vast majority of people, if they stay the course, they will find that [00:48:00] breakthrough at some point. And I admire that. You're you're hustling. I think it's awesome. I thank you.

Andy C: You're not doing it how other people tell you you should do it. You're doing absolutely

Mario S: not how to do it. That's right. No, there's enough success for, I think my mother said this once, it's like there's enough success in the world to go around for everyone. That's right. It just doesn't look that way. Yeah, that's right.

Mario S: And I think that's like the thing that I always try to live by. It's like I'm really excited to see other people. I'm excited to see other brands. I'm really excited to, um, Pedro, the guy who opened up the rope company Yeah. In Arkansas. Yes. I'm very excited to talk to him like that. Like, cause I asked him, I was like, there's not a, there's no other climbing like manufacturer of like climbing goods Right in.

Mario S: There's not a company in Arkansas that does that's, and he's like, no, this is the first. And I'm like, but at some time I always assume that, that like, there should have been Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it's just, it made sense. But then I was like, holy crap. Wow. This is big. Cuz this is like God's co this rock Arkansas's God's country for climbing in the South.

Mario S: That's

Andy C: great. It's great [00:49:00] climbing. Yeah. Yes. It's great. And I admire, well I say admire. I really would like to hear more about Pedro's story and how that brain came about. Yeah. Cause I just don't know. Oh, well we, and I want to

Mario S: Oh, oh, I'm talking to him before we get outta here. Thank so de I'm excited.

Andy C: I love it.

Andy C: Yeah. I'm glad they're here. I'm glad he is here. Yeah. Nice. So,

Mario S: um, I guess is there anything that's coming down the pipeline from you? Like anything that people can kind of look for or do they just need to follow you and watch you and kind of try to keep up with you? I think that's not

Andy C: a reality. There's, I'm working on a lot of, uh, shall we say, recreational projects in Arkansas, I guess.

Andy C: Okay. So basically making outdoor recreation in this state specifically, or at least right now, northwest Arkansas, but eventually spreading that to the entire state, but making outdoor, recreational more accessible, more people. Nice. Um, and more wor, more world class. Um, and so I'm working on a [00:50:00] lot of projects in that regard, so that, that's gonna be super fun.

Andy C: I love that. Mm-hmm. . Um, and then we're kind of expanding a few of our rule of three events. So we're gonna, we're gonna maybe put on a couple more of those events, um, within the state of Arkansas. within the state of Arkansas, because again, that's another one of those brands that I believe should not be spread out over multiple areas and mm-hmm.

Andy C: places and, you know, um, we, we put on, uh, an event in January called The Rule of Free, as in zero, it costs nothing. And so it's a gravel race in January in Bentonville that's free. It doesn't cost you a dime. You come, you race at the finish line. There's beer and food and it's our thank you to the community for supporting the rule of three in such a That's awesome.

Andy C: Big way, . That's awesome. Um, but we just call it rule of free. So, dude, that's awesome.

So

Mario S: that sounds like a family affair.

Andy C: That's awesome. It's, it's super cool. And the local community is, has opened their arms [00:51:00] to the, you know, to the event. And that's a thank you or thank you.

Mario S: So if someone wanted to start their own event, I think that's something that I'm hoping someone listening to this is Yeah.

Mario S: Cause I know I've, I've talked to you about this. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like I'm gonna give away this idea on the podcast and then, uh, if someone else starts this , you're welcome. Right. You know, just remember to hollaback at your boy. But I've always wanted to do like a, either like a triathlon or some kind of raise that bedrock.

Mario S: And I had, I tried, it almost happened, but I couldn't get enough crazy friends to convince it along to do it. Yeah. What I wanted to do is get a U-haul. You're gonna drive to Las Vegas Uhhuh with everybody's road bike in the back. Yeah. In Dallas, there are always a very consistent spirit or frontier red eye flights that like fly like clockwork to Vegas.

Mario S: Yeah. Yeah. The idea was we were all gonna get on the red eye. Uhhuh land in Vegas in the morning, the truck pulls up and someone just throws your bike out to you. That's amazing. The ride from the airport to Red Rocks [00:52:00] was, uh, I think it's like, 60, 70 mile. Yeah. And there is a road you can road bike the whole thing.

Mario S: Yeah. Yeah. And we wanted to then jump off, get into the loop, run off. You have to do a climb. Yeah. And then it's like, there's like, you know, a bunch of 'em that choose from and you just get your little scorecard checked. Yeah. And then you come back into the Red Rocks Canyon, cuz you all the climbs are being Juni Canyon.

Mario S: Yeah. Or in the other side, the loop is a half marathon. Yeah. And so the idea is we always wanted, I always tried to, I I like had like six people agree. Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't enough. But it's this crazy idea. And, but granted this is something silly Yeah. I've always wanted to do, but if someone wanted to do this, is there any advice that you give them besides just screw it, screw it, and let's do it.

Mario S: Yeah.

Andy C: The, my first advice would be to decide how you want to do it and stick with that. Okay. Um, I've always, you know, I've always been a true believer in don't, don't worry about how other [00:53:00] people are doing things. , like blaze your own path. Mm-hmm. , like, don't look to see what other people are doing. And if you do, don't let that influence you.

Andy C: Maybe you look to see what other people are doing and like, well I like that. I don't like that. I'm gonna take this, but I don't, well, I'm gonna leave that I don't, I don't like that part. And then do it how you would want to do it. That would be my biggest advice. Too many people in my opinion, look to see what other people are doing out there.

Andy C: And they're like, well, I'm gonna do, I like that, so I'm just gonna do it like that. Mm-hmm. do it your own way. Um, and then, and then I would also argue that don't make your North Star money. I'm, I know that that's antithetical to how we're taught in society, but like, make your north star the experience for the people, you know.

Andy C: Mm-hmm. , you know, if you do it right, I'm sure money will eventually follow. Yeah. Um, but I wouldn't make that your North Star, cuz then you start making those decisions based on money and that's, I just don't think that's sustainable. And that's antithetical to [00:54:00] what we're told in society. Yeah, no,

Mario S: it is. I mean, it definitely is, but I think I agree with you.

Mario S: It is not sustainable because you're always chasing money. And if that's the idea, in my mind, if you're always chasing a dollar, someone is gonna have something else. It's if you're chasing a dollar, that dollar belongs to someone that's giving it to you. Yeah. And that person might no longer find what you're doing.

Mario S: Interesting. Yeah. So then that dollar is going somewhere else. Yeah. But if you're chasing the experience, well then there are plenty of people who want that experience. Right. That will al there will always be more people. Yeah. Wanting to pay for an experience and wanting to be involved in experience. But if you are trying to get money out of people, then you, you're no longer in the driver's seat.

Mario S: Yeah. You're taking, you're, you're doing whatever they say, like, but if you keep your idea based on your experience. Yeah. It sounds like to me, like you're telling someone, like you're always in the driver's seat at that point in time. Yeah. Like, you're like it, it doesn't matter anymore. You take that equation out.

Mario S: It's the biggest thing that I think a lot of people I agree with you would get hung up on.

Andy C: That's one of the reasons why I don't take cash from, from [00:55:00] companies because then they get to tell me what to do. And I don't like being told what to do. . That's fair. And I, dude, I am not an event promoter. I, I, I do not call myself an event promoter.

Andy C: I just wanna bring together for a good time. That's it. Yeah, that's it. What's the hang? That's it. So, you know, I don't have a ton of advice because I'm really not that great at this. And, and I'm being very honest, you know, horseshoe hell has become what it is, honestly, not because of me. It's really because of the people that come and contribute out of the kindness of their hearts to make the event better.

Andy C: And the staff, the staff does all the work. You've seen me this weekend. Oh yeah. What have I done? Oh, nothing. I've done

Mario S: nothing. I've been drinking wi, I've been drinking Masco and

Andy C: Whiskey with you. Dude, I bet they do everything. Yeah. And they own it. They love it. It's their, it's, they're fulfilled by it. The staff here is the only reason why.

Andy C: The Horseshoe Health staff that put this event on Daniel and his crew, [00:56:00] they are the only reason why this thing is still going. That's it. They're the only reason, not me. Yeah. So surround yourself by really good people. Yeah.

Mario S: No dude, you are who you stand with. That is the truth. Yeah. You

Andy C: are who you stand with.

Andy C: Yeah. And I've just gotten lucky to have the, I mean, these people kill it. They're unbelievable what they do. So if again, I'm telling you, if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be sitting here right now. We just wouldn't be. Well definitely.

Mario S: Well I would like to get an introduction with Daniel cuz I, this is something I would love to like pick out his brain and just talk, cuz I think events like this, like people want to create events like this and I really like what you said.

Mario S: It's like, you know, keep your, keep your North stars the experience that you want to have. Yeah. Yeah. This is one of those things where like the only other event that I've ever seen that is like, this is color, the crag. Oh. Which was in Alabama. Yeah. And granted that event had a very different mission. Yeah.

Mario S: It, yeah. Yeah. It was 100% community. Right. But bringing community that would never, ever, ever be in the outdoors in [00:57:00] their entire lives and don't grow up with access to the outdoors. Yep, yep, yep. But if you have the means to get there,

Andy C: yeah. It's there. Which that's amazing.

Mario S: Yeah. Which I hope that event comes back.

Mario S: Yeah. That like, it was the, it was definitely one of the, like this, it was probably one of the most unique. Beautiful. That's events ever. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, do you know Bethany and Mihail, the people

Andy C: who put that on? I don't think so. Oh. One of these

Mario S: days. I'd like to introduce you

Andy C: guys. Yeah. Bring 'em up here.

Andy C: Yeah. . Um, I would love that.

Mario S: But, uh, yeah. No, and I think that's like the key thing, but I definitely hear people say all the time of like, like they come to these events and they wanna know how to recreate this in their own community Yeah. And recreate something of this value. But I think that's like what you said.

Mario S: Keeping the experience in mind. Yeah. And don't focus about, like, don't focus on so much like what you need to make it happen. Yeah. Like you're, you're probably already doing it and you're probably already living it. Right. Because if you've had, you've had a glimmer of this experience already. Yeah. They'll just keep people taking along.

Mario S: Cause that's really, it's what it sounds like for me [00:58:00] with Horseshoe. Yeah. If you guys just kept doing it back, come coming back, kept coming back. That's right. Kept on getting bigger and eventually Yeah.

Andy C: You know. That's right. It just grew. And one thing I will say, I I, if for your listeners I would love, well one thing I'll say for your listeners is if anybody does need any help, you, you're asking what I would, what I advice I would give, anything we do is open source you, we'll give you, we have no secrets.

Andy C: Whatever. You can use our scoring system. You can use whatever you want that we use for, to put on your own events. Hell, we'll, I'll, I'll introduce you to our sponsors. If you, if you have a real plan together that you really want to do an event, , I'll introduce you, all our sponsors and say, Hey, this is somebody wanting to do something cool in the community.

Andy C: Will you talk to them? Yeah, we are, we are not. We have no secrets here. That's so anybody who, we've had people contact us over the years and say, could we use your scoring system or could we use your [00:59:00] rules or whatever. It's all, you can use any of it you want. None of it's secret. None of it's, uh, just for us.

Andy C: Yeah. You can use anything you want. Yeah.

Mario S: Well, if anybody does have an idea, I will put a link in the bottom of the show notes. Cool. Yeah. Be awesome. And then you can like submit your idea cuz like, I can see this going bombarding with ideas and craziness, so like I'm totally fine. Yeah, just hit us up. Hit us

Andy C: up.

Andy C: There should be, there should be a bunch more of these out here. Just not put on by me. . .

Mario S: So what we're also saying is, uh, personal invite is required. . Yeah.

Andy C: Yeah. Oh, that's

Mario S: awesome. Yeah. I want to, I think that's like a big thing with me too. It's like when I look, when I look at this thing too, it's like, I like what you said.

Mario S: It's like there should be more and I've always wondered why there's not. Right. And also too, there might be some that, once again, not everyone knows about Horseshoe. Right, right. Kind of getting back to like what I was talking about the bullseye earlier, like you have your inner [01:00:00] circle. Yeah. You have your outer circle and that, and I feel like if.

Mario S: Float between within depth of climbing community. If you float between like circle number four and five, you get whispers of this. Yeah. You know? Right. And, but if you're outside and part of that, you just don't know about it yet. And but then if you're in three, three to the bullseye, yeah. This is a very well known thing.

Mario S: Right. Like people I know who have been climbing for years have been like, I've always wanted to go to that thing seems so intense and so instream. Or some people are just like, yeah, it's just, I've been, I've, I've been trying to get in and Yeah, they eventually I hear from 'em, they're like, I finally got in.

Mario S: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a big deal. So this is one of those things

Andy C: we, we just, we just do everything antithetical to what you would think it should be done. We, you know, we don't ask climbing magazines to come out. We don't, I mean, we post on our Instagram page for five days out of the, out of the year, and it's during this, you know, we put stories up.

Andy C: But you won't really see much from us. The rest, I mean, we don't [01:01:00] advertise. There's no need. It's all word of mouth. There's no all word of mouth. There's no need for this

Mario S: thing. Like, like, like the wisp. When the email comes out, that registration is getting to open. Oh yeah. There are whispers in the gym.

Mario S: Like people get in these like poll with like pulled deep into near where the, where the ette is. They're like, like hey, the registration's opening up. Like there are whispers. That's funny. You hear it. That's funny. Like everyone knows that it's, I, at least in Dallas, I think it's beautiful. Cause you'll hear once that email comes out.

Mario S: Yeah, just coaching the kids. I'm always standing out. I hear people talking about it like registration, like it's getting ready to open up. Are you ready? You wanna do this? Like, no, I'm not ready. You're ready, .

Andy C: I love it.

Mario S: It's funny. Yeah, dude, this thing has a cult following. It

Andy C: does. Yeah. I like it. I like the cult following.

Andy C: I think that's cool. We, I don't want to be. You know, nothing, not that there's anything wrong with mainstream, but I, I don't wanna be that. I want to be like under kind of like a secret, like underneath the radar anybody is, obviously [01:02:00] everybody's welcome, but I still want it to be this like, not secretive, but kind of underground kind of event where we like kind of stick to ourselves.

Andy C: And if you want to come, we want you to come, but we ain't coming out there to ask you to come. No. Yeah, no, that's,